Just an Epic Life
Just an Epic Life
The Suck: Navigating Life's Hard Moments
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The glossy social media versions of our lives rarely show the struggles, setbacks, and periods of suck that everyone experiences. Today we're getting brutally honest about the challenges we've faced in our businesses over the past six months.
Our flipping business hit a major slowdown, with only one property purchased between November and May. Each unsold mobile home was bleeding $1,300 monthly in lot rent, insurance, and utilities. We even sold one property at a loss recently – not because the market forced us to, but because stopping the monthly financial hemorrhage made strategic sense. The hardest part? Recognizing that external factors weren't entirely to blame. We discovered we hadn't sent out direct mail campaigns since September, a critical marketing channel for our business.
This realization prompted deep reflection about leadership, accountability, and what success really means. Do we need to flip 40-100 homes yearly, or could we be just as profitable with 12-15 quality projects? Through these challenges, maintaining our marriage became paramount. We established clear boundaries between our business and personal lives, introducing specific language ("Hi boss") to signal when we're speaking as business partners versus husband and wife.
Financial constraints meant adjusting spending habits, making strategic decisions about which credit card balances to carry (at what painful interest rates), and being transparent with our children about the temporary tightening of finances. Despite the difficulties, we rejected victimhood thinking. Instead, we asked: "How can we grow through this?" rather than just praying to escape the situation.
Every entrepreneur faces storms – periods of doubt, struggle, and setbacks. The difference between those who succeed and those who quit lies in how they respond to "the suck." Do you view challenges as reasons to return to safer employment, or as opportunities to hone your leadership skills? Remember, storms always pass, but the wisdom gained from weathering them remains forever.
Continuing the Journey
Speaker 1Hello and welcome back to another episode of Just an Epic Life. If you, I'm hoping you saw already an episode, or listened to an episode already, where we are driving home from Sedona, and so we're just going to continue the journey. Thank you, because this is fun, I told Nick as soon as he thought of this what are you doing?
Speaker 2It's saying shift into park before exiting the vehicle.
Speaker 1Are your doors all closed? Your door's not closed that's why New car, yeah, but it's locked. Well, you have to get into park, mister.
Speaker 2All right. Ready Park Okay Open Close.
Speaker 1Okay, drive Huzzah. So Nick says we can record on our way down and I'm like okay, great, is your mic on, is it green?
Speaker 2Yep, okay, we're green.
Speaker 1Hold on A little rustle, a little rustle, all right, we're good, okay, and I said now I want to record in a lie flat seat in the air. So we're going to have to get two lie-flat seats that are next to each other, which means we're not going to have window seats with that set. But that's okay, yeah, but you, our audience, are worth it.
Speaker 2Yeah, sorry, sitting next to you in an airplane is worth it. That's what I meant to say. You're terrible, yeah, so let me accelerate. Yeah, getting on the ice.
The Suck: Behind the Perfect Image
Speaker 1Yeah. So when we were discussing what we have a conversation about, I said to Nick we can talk about something that most people don't like to talk about, which is the suck, the suck. Yeah, I think that if you follow Nick or I in any capacity, I think we probably make life look easy.
Speaker 2Yeah, like social media, probably looks like rose-filtered glasses, the rose lens. What are those Rose-colored glasses?
Speaker 1Like we do epic things I mean the and we are blessed. People like the ugliest you probably see of our life is when I'm out on a walk and I don't I either have yesterday's makeup on or I don't have any on and you're just getting like me in my moments, but I don't. And, to be honest, like we don't have a lot of suck, and the last six months has kind of been sucky- it has been sucky.
Speaker 2Just talking about the flipping business between the months of sorry. Between the months of November and and may 4th, we only purchased one home that sucks, yeah, especially when you still have operating expenses and no money coming in and we have homes on the market.
Speaker 2And in a manufactured home in a mobile home park where you're paying lot rents of six hundred to a thousand dollars and you're paying insurance and you're paying utilities, you're you're losing like thirteen hundred dollars per month per property as it sits. That's different than our manufactured homes on owned land where we're just really missing out on opportunity cost. You know our money is still tied up in this one and we can't use it. No, in a mobile home park it's much more active for every month that we're overworking.
Speaker 1So November through, May really sucked, yeah. So we didn't buy anything and we had four homes on the market that were costing us money and we closed one today actually where we took a loss.
Speaker 2The high five. Right before you say we took a loss, I retract my no. Just selling it at a loss means we're not bleeding $1,300 per month on that home. Yeah, I mean, we'll take this loss instead of a loss in four months.
Real Estate Struggles and Hard Truths
Speaker 1Yeah, it's it's, it's only a few thousand dollars. Um, it's less than 1% of what we sold it for, but no, sorry, just kidding, less than 10% of what we sold for, but nonetheless, nobody likes to take the loss, um, and the executive team didn't get bonus on it, I mean. So it could have been a bigger loss than what it was. We decided to like bare bones it down and just say hey, thanks to everybody, high five, instead of like honoring people with money. So, with that said, we did have. So can I talk?
Speaker 2about one thing about the suck the way that we saw the suck, we weren't. We didn't view ourselves as victims. We didn't view ourselves as victims of the market. We weren't saying, oh, we only purchased one home because of this, because of this and because of this, these external factors. No, you want to know what really sucked? The moment in March I think it was March when we realized that we hadn't sent out a direct mailer campaign since September. In a business where so much of our marketing comes from direct mailers and we had multiple people doing multiple things and the direct mail campaign was just one little thing that everyone thought someone else was doing and me, as the operations guy, that was an absolute failure on my point on my part, and that sucked to realize that the potential demise, the potential death of our company, because we thought about folding our company well not.
Speaker 1I don't folding sounds so dramatic, but closing it for sure, just saying hey, let's just cut our losses and take the money out of it.
Speaker 2Just let everyone go and good luck finding new positions.
Speaker 1And I don't know if everybody knows, but that business is a partnership with my dad and so he very much is like you're at a different stage in life than me, and he definitely had a moment where he was like I would just like to take what I have into it and get out, because he's looking at like retirement. He's been, he's been living his best life the last three months, well, two months. Right now he's still on his rv trip to yellowstone. He told me he was gonna be home today. There is no way.
Speaker 2He's five hours from flagstaff and he's definitely gonna hang out in Flagstaff at least tonight they showed us pictures from the RV resort in northern Utah or Wyoming or something by the river.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, they're having the most incredible time, and they should. I want everything about it, so I was. We were.
Speaker 2Yeah, he saw the suck and attached that to the risk of this life that I've built, these experiences that I get to have. Is that going to be affected? Because the business is sucking? And then me, as his son-in-law and the person who's running that company for him, that was a lot of pressure and it didn't feel good and just it was a lot of self exploration of of things that I could have done better.
Speaker 1Well, so I took on that at the end of the day, everything landed on me. Nope, I get. The dad and I are in business together, pretty much 50, 50. But if we look at the origin story, I started this company, I started the daughter-dad team and then, I mean, he and I made a decision together to invest in our first property. But I carried the weight of I started everything together. If he didn't seem to be successful in real estate, he probably would've never gotten in it, and so I took on sometime in, I think November.
Speaker 1I took on like this is all on me. So now I need to take a few steps back and I easily could have just been like and I'll just be honest, I think I probably had several hours where I was like this sucks, I don't want to do this, this is too hard, this is, this is not what I signed up for. I, I certainly. Uh, I want to pass blame, uh, and the moment I catch myself doing that, I go no, no, you put people in place to leverage you and be an extension of you, and if they didn't deliver on my own expectations? Because I didn't lay clear expectations and clear lines, and so at the end of the day, it's on me and that's okay, and for me, with you as my leader, it's comforting for you.
Speaker 2I mean, we all recognize where I struggled in the jungle. Is that a bird? We?
Speaker 1recognize. No, that's a tree, a Joshua tree. But yeah, that looked really odd. Oh my gosh, I don't have my glasses in. That is the most massive condor ever I was like all over, all over again.
Speaker 2So I mean it's very clear where I could have done better, but it's comforting for me to hear you say ultimately it's on you.
Finding the Sweet Spot in Business
Speaker 1Well, and I think what did you say first? I could have done better. I think everybody on the team has had those moments. We're all. The coolest part is I think everyone took a step back. We re-evaluated, we laid expectation lines for each one of us, and we're still doing that. So it's not perfect yet. There's an amp right there and now it's like put the systems in place such that we don't have this problem again. And something else that we really kind of wrapped our heads around was we wanted. We saw us moving at a much faster pace and, like in the flipping business, doing 100 flips, 40 flips, 60 flips, whatever and now we're going. We probably could be as profitable as we want to be with $12 or $15.
Speaker 2Well, and someone who's very close to us. He owns a construction business and he's talked about how he could work his butt off and make tons of money. But does he need tons of money? No, like he knows exactly what amount of money his family needs to bring in for them to continue their lifestyle and he knows what type of projects and how many to bring that in. And then, above and beyond that, if he chooses to, he can, yeah, but he's not. I mean, he's past the hustle phase Now. He's in the okay, I'm here in my industry and I can choose what to do and what not to do, and there's comfort in finding that sweet spot.
Speaker 1Yeah, and like he and I have talked about it a lot and it's funny how similar our mindsets are about things. Like he and I had a conversation about how he doesn't have to own the toys because then he has to store the toys, make sure the toys always work, work on the toys. Instead he can rent the toys. Yeah, that might be a little more expensive, but now he doesn't have to store the toys, work on the toys, he can just make it somebody else's problem. Right, like not a big deal. So yeah, so it's been a little sucky the last six months has it sucked in your real estate sales business.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, oh man, is that because of the?
Speaker 2market, or because of your team, or because of you.
Marriage Through Business Challenges
Speaker 1Yeah, I feel like it's easy to blame the market. It's 100% easy to blame the market and yet when you look at what top agents are doing, yeah, they're doing a little bit less, but they're still doing their. I'm going to say we, because I live inside that top agent Like top 1% of our multiple listing, I think is a pretty big, a pretty big accolade. I don't know Notch in my belt, whatever all that stuff. I don't want to be egotistical about it, but I think it has an expectation about it and, yeah, it requires a little more work.
Speaker 1Sherry, so we'll call her the number one fires agent because she's an original daughter dad. She's like killing it right now and she's like last year she would tell you it sucked, she had made less money, she sold less, um, and the fruit for labor the constant mundane touching base with people is is paying off because she's by the end of this month she will have made what she made last year. And we are in june, beginning of june, yeah, so, uh, she it's, it's within a couple thousand dollars, because she was just looking at that and I'm like okay, so this is one of those years where I'm gonna tell her she's gonna make more money than her husband and we're gonna brag about it, so, uh, so with uh, within your real estate team, we did the book club.
Speaker 2We always do a book club. We're always reading something, A growth. We call it a growth call. Yeah, it's our growth call, and we've been reading books that have directly applied to everyone in your team. We did Exactly what to Say by Philip Jones. Even for people who aren't in on the sales side how can they implement things that we're learning on the growth calls and through books? We did switch things up for this last book and we're reading Shoe Dog by Phil, not Phil M, Just Phil. So he's the creator, one of the creators of Nike. We can call him the founder, and there are so many people on the team who are essentially saying why are we reading this? It's a long book, it's a very long book, but it's for me, it's such a beautiful journey Because he talks about the path of suck. Like we view Nike, you know, on the same level as like your biggest brands in the world. I mean, we see Nike on television, we see Nike with our pro athletes.
Speaker 1It has grand recognition worldwide. So even if it wasn't on the product in which it's famous for, people would still know what that shlush is. Oh yeah, take it off and put it on a. Turn it into a hamburger, hamburger bread. They would know. It's Nike, right.
Speaker 2So we view it one way now, but we don't view the journey through the 1960s, 1970s and getting to where they are. If you haven't read the book or listened to the book, I think it's a phenomenal read. I'm a big fan. The last it's. For me it's like when I watched the show Schitt's Creek. Schitt's Creek was a phenomenal show. Looking back on it In season one and season two of Schitt's Creek no offense to the creators and the actors I tolerated season one and season two. But once I got into the later seasons, that's when I fell in love with the characters. That's when I fell in love with everything and like, the last season was just this beautiful culmination of everything. And I'm sure there are many sitcoms and shows and things like that where you can relate. I view the same thing with the book shootout. The first 80%, 85%, maybe even 90%. You're hearing about the journey and you're tolerating the suck and you're empathizing with I don't want to say characters, but you're empathizing with the founders. And then the last hour is just a beautiful culmination.
Speaker 1I want to say you made it sound like it's awful to read and it's not. It really is written well. You want to keep reading. You want to hear all the crap that he's going through. You want to hear how much worse it can get. Because just when you think honestly, just when I thought it couldn't get worse, it did. And he was not having it, he was like, I mean, he had a few moments I think he even writes about a few moments where he's like, ugh, what am I going to do? And then he was like I don't care, we're going to figure it out.
Speaker 2And like I think it like when hearing him talk about the regrets over his relationship with his family, specifically his boys, because of his commitment to Nike and sacrificing those relationships. That got to me Because I've had those inner conversations. I've had those conversations with you inner conversations. I've had those conversations with you when I chose to leave teaching, those that was at the forefront of my thinking, because, with how busy our kids are right now, if I was, let me say that differently, because there are choir teachers who you know they might do three afternoon or evening performances and you know they're there each school day, but then there are choir program directors that give everything to their kiddos and I was one of those. So if I was a program director with a massive, powerful program With our kids as busy as they are, I don't want to imagine what that relationship would look like.
Speaker 1It's like 100% in that, yeah, and I think, like, would we even be married? I think you wouldn't tolerate it. What did you say? You apologized to me for something after the well thing. What was it?
Speaker 2I think I Were you saying to me. I said thank you for not leaving me. Really it came down to that Thank you for not leaving me Because of what?
Speaker 2Because when we were first starting our careers, I selfishly viewed my career as more important. When you were working at a mortgage company, you weren't changing lives, but your company was allowing the opportunity for people's lives to be changed. So, yes, you were making a difference. I saw every single day the difference that I made. So because I saw that I viewed my job as more important, and that's selfish and that's naive and Okay. But when we had kids, my job was most important and that's selfish and it's a jerk move and we see so many people go through that, regardless of gender, one person views their career as more important than the other person's career and it leads to tension and I view that. I recognize that and thank you for not leaving me, can I? I'm like maybe we cut this because it's too vulnerable.
Speaker 1All right, you know, and I think, I think that you talk about how you viewed your career as more important, and I'm, oh gosh, I'm afraid this might hurt a little bit. Okay, you, I think you saw you as more important.
Speaker 2Oh, I uh, I could just say that I did yeah.
Speaker 1I mean, uh, I don't know if we ever talked about this. It's a jerk move. Sorry about that, it's okay. Like, I think we have our moments right. I think about the moment in the pediatrician's office when it said who's the primary parent? And you're like, well, it's you. And I was like, what the F word? Looking back, you could have handled that better. Here's the thing. I was yeah, I made that choice, but there was something deflating in that second, because I was like, does this mean, like you think I'm going to be the only one that gets to care for this human, which, by the way, I have done a freaking, phenomenal job? Yes, you have, we have amazing humans. Yeah, we do. So it's okay. And I, uh, you were the primary caretaker, yeah, of all things.
Speaker 1Including me, when people say they have a third child, when they only have two children. Yeah, you're right, and I think like, uh, it's like the whole backpack conversation, right, like who's wearing the backpack? I think we have it pretty evenly split. There are moments I think even days sometimes where you're carrying all the rocks and I'm carrying all the rocks or, you know, switching them. But there were different points in our lives where the whole analogy is the person who is like carrying the weight of the relationship is carrying the backpack. And we all know that if you're going to Disneyland or a theme park or somewhere and you've got to bring all the things that you need, that backpack can be heavy.
Speaker 1By the way, I do not carry the backpack in real life. Nick has a backpack problem. It's not a backpack problem, okay, anyway. So, yes, I appreciate all of that. It never occurred to me, just so we're clear. It never occurred to me to leave you. How many times I tell people all the time we said till death, do us part. I truly believe that gave me permission to murder him first.
Speaker 2True crime. You saw it first. Evidence from June 6, 2025. On the 8th of September 17, south, just north of Camp 30. Or South.
Speaker 1Or South, yeah so, 25 on the air state 17 south, just north of camp 30 or south. Yeah so, uh, yeah, so the suck has been real, I think. Um, something that I think hasn't sucked inside of all of this suck is our relationship. I think, if nothing else, it's given us an opportunity to grow as a married couple, as when I call Nick during the business day, he answers the phone hi, boss, so that it's clear where our lines are and if I am calling him as his wife, I'll let him know immediately.
Speaker 2No, I'm your wife, and it just Just one time last week when you called me with corrections and I said hey boss, and you said that's the correct answer and then it led into hey, this is where you sucked today. It did not say that Well, my interactions with one of our team members was not as positive and uplifting. In the communication prior to the event it was not there. So you, as the CEO, were saying, look, that's not the culture of our business. Do this better. Yeah, so you're able to like within that confines of hi boss, that's the correct title for this moment. Yeah, and that evening, when we're husband and wife, we didn't talk about it.
Speaker 1That didn't make about it. So I think the relationship with each other in our business, in our business management, and with our children and our children have got to see how it sucks and like. Because, of course, if our business finances are not doing what we want them to do, the first person to take a pay cut is me. So pay cut had and it's okay, I feel like it'll work itself out. But so that requires that we're not as loosey-goosey with finances, with the kids too, and just being clear about it.
Learning from Difficulty and Moving Forward
Speaker 2It's so much easier to pay bills on the first of the month when I just go oh, that's what's owed go, that's what's owed go, that's what's owed go, as opposed to months like this where I have to say okay, here's our starting balance. These are the withdrawals that are gonna be gonna be coming out. This is what's owed on each credit card. Can we pay off the entire statement balance of each credit card? I was able to, but it took some math.
Speaker 1By the way, inside of our credit card hacking, we are very diligent with not carrying balances. With that said, I have said to my very close people, so I will say to you, as you are my close people too, there have been months in the last six months where we've had to carry balances and we saw it as a strategic move.
Speaker 2January 2025, we carried some balance and we paid. In February of 2025, we paid some credit card interest because we had to. It was a strategic move to keep cash flow in the business.
Speaker 1So it's I mean, by the way, strategic at 29% sucks oh my God.
Speaker 2But that's why we paid off the 29% cards and we found, like the 21%, 22% cards. We're like, okay, we'll carry the balance with those cards. So on my spreadsheet that I use for tracking all the bill pay, it has the credit card percentage. Yeah, I get it. So that way, when I have to choose, okay, there's a card that we're going to carry a balance, which one is it? Okay, the lowest one is this.
Speaker 1I'm saying that just because I feel like I'm in a season where I'm starting to teach credit card program stuff to people in my industry. By the way, I am not an expert.
Speaker 1I am probably six months ahead of most people, and there are people that are smarter than me. Give yourself more credit, okay. Okay, maybe a year, 18 months, okay, sure. And as we start advising people to potentially open credit cards in an effort to build point wealth, I want to be clear that we do not encourage you to carry debt. We have start advising people to potentially open credit cards in an effort to build point wealth. I want to be clear that we do not encourage you to carry debt. We have carried debt, we have carried debt and we in general don't anymore. So, yeah, I feel like there's the realness about there's us pulling back the curtain. We're not. We have hard times too, and I think the best way we deal with it is understanding that there's hard times and figuring out a strategic plan to move around it quickly, instead of going this sucks.
Speaker 2The whole world's falling apart, there's nothing I can do about it, and feeling debilitated and victimed, and for people in both of our positions and people on our team when I mean the people that you coach when times suck. Their first response is I don't want to do it and instead I will quit and get a job yeah, a job that has predictable income, which is so valuable to have predictable income.
Speaker 1I have predictable income. I don't. I created that. Yes, you do, I created that too. We're just in a weird season that we'll get through. I'm glad you said that, because I wanted to say this and I couldn't figure out how it pour in.
Speaker 1And you talk about the people I coach. To one of my dearest friends the other day and she was talking about how the average agents call one time right. So you want to buy or sell a home, you maybe contact the realtor or you reach out to them online and they call you one time. If you don't answer or respond to them, they don't ever call you again. A good agent calls twice and a great agent calls three or more times Because, honestly, that's what it takes.
Speaker 1I get a gob of I mean, because we sell so many mobile homes, we get I don't know somewhere from one to 20 leads online a day and it's so easy for me to just call one time and if they don't respond, they didn't meet me. But that's not how it is. They get a call, a text, an email and then probably another one the next day and the next day, and the next day and the next day. So, yeah, but people come into my industry, probably most industries and go what is the least I can get away with, and if you're not making $100,000 in your first five minutes of real estate, you think it's hard and you want to quit and you want to get it done. And when people miss this, there's the sub.
Speaker 2I love when we hear Gary Keller and Jay Pipson talk about, you know, real estate was really easy for like a year or two, like anyone with a pulse could have sold real estate. And now it's the professionals that are in the market, because everyone who is in it for quick money and you know, oh well, that looks easy, that looks that's a high income, I can, I can do that, uh, and they sell a few homes and they have some success, but they aren't good at real estate. They are not a real estate professional, they're not a real estate consultant. They were just there for the transaction.
Speaker 1Luckily, they're out of the industry or in the process of getting out of the industry. I mean, hopefully those are people who chose to be just an agent instead of being a business owner and honestly, I think people forget when they start businesses that they became a business owner. And honestly, I think people forget when they start businesses that they became a business owner, that they're a CEO. And if people who started businesses any kind of business, like the multi-level marketing stuff, like if you're selling skincare or candles or I don't know, there's so much, if you took on in that moment that you decided to go buy into whatever that is, that I'm a CEO of a company, that would be a paradigm shift and you might actually I'd like one.
Speaker 1Sorry, I didn't know this when I first started. I didn't know. Like. There are lots of conversations I have with people that are like man, if I had that conversation in my first three years of real estate, where the heck would I be now? And Keller Green was giving many of the things. I just was a stay-at-home mom who was selling real estate. That's what I was.
Speaker 2Looking back on my first year of teaching, I'm embarrassed at how bad I was. But if you ask any of my students well, I shouldn't say any of my students. If you ask 85% of my students, they thought I was the best teacher they ever had. Just because looking back we see our flaws doesn't mean they were bad Inexperience Inexperience isn't necessarily a bad thing. No, like in the book Shoe Dog, all of the challenges that phil like faced it was his first time experiencing those challenges. It's his first time getting a 25 million dollar bill from the united states government customs office. No one can prepare someone for that. So yes, he was a first timer facing that bill. Uh, and it was the his mindset and and his professionalism and the team around him. Just because it was their first time tackling that challenge doesn't mean that they didn't do it professionally and brilliantly.
Speaker 2Same thing with your first time working with a short-term. Your first time working with a divorced couple, your first time working. I mean there will always be a first time for everything. It doesn't mean you suck Right Like tomorrow is my first time clearing debris off of an aluminum awning from a manufacturer. I will probably learn a few ways not to do it. Come on, as long as they don't fall, yeah. So I mean, tomorrow I will learn how to do things and I'll learn how to not do things. I'm I'm currently armed with three different solutions that I'm going to try, and out of those three I'll pick the one that was most successful and I'll lead with that, and I'll be open-minded to, uh, other ways again. I can even ask the google.
Speaker 1Well, we hope that you don't have to go through the suck, and I believe that you probably will at some point. So when you do, we hope you are armed with tenacity and encouragement that you're not alone in the suck. Other people have been there or are going through the same thing, and I encourage you more than anything to just look at the suck and go all right, how do I get through this? Because inside the storm it's hard at. Because inside the storm it's hard At the end of the storm. Where should we?
Speaker 2go. The storm, storm, storm. Oh, I'm just bantering just a little bit until we get to the exit where I can go. Okay, good, the storm always passes. And Isaiah learned this from his leader. So Isaiah is a leader in the state of Arizona for his club? Yeah, he's one of the eight leaders. And the person who leads these eight leaders for the state of Arizona talked about as a team. You are going to have fights, but she didn't use the word fights. She said you're going to have storms, you're going to storm the first day, calling it out and just saying look, you might be all happy, happy, joy, joy as a team right now, but there will be times when you don't get along. And that's good, that's encouraged. And she brought out a storm always passes, that's beautiful. So same thing with the suck the suck always passes.
Speaker 1So you say that, and so one of my good friends we were talking about this too shall pass, this too shall. Everything is that this too shall pass the storm. We never want to hear that inside of the greatness, when we're inside of joy and happiness and everything's going right. This two shall pass.
Speaker 2Well, and Mark Patterson. He just read in his book it's not praying to get through it, it's praying. What am I going to get out of it? Yeah, what am I going to get through it? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1Don't not going to get out of it, yeah. What am I going to get through it? Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, not praying to get out of the situation.
Speaker 1So many people pray to get out of it. Yeah, and he encourages us to pray to him. What can I get out of this? How can I grow in this situation? And so sorry if it's almost a little bit quick, but yeah, I definitely feel like that reading that book inside of the suck was purposeful, because then my prayer became like, how can I be the better leader inside of this suck? So, yeah, cool, so until next time enjoy an epic.